Juror 66's Testimony from Nov. 17 Hearing - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

Juror 66's Testimony from Nov. 17 Hearing

Juror 66 (Taken from official transcript.)

BY THE COURT:

Q.  Good morning, ma'am, how are you doing?

A.  Good morning. I am fine.

Q.  Ma'am, I am going to refer to you by your juror number, and in front of you you will see the list of the 12 jurors in this case with the corresponding juror number.  And you were not here when I gave some general instructions to the five other jurors who came in before you, or the witnesses that the Court has called, and I am going to give you the instructions that I gave them about why you are here today first.

First of all I am going to refer to you by your juror number for your personal identity and your protection of your identity, and assure you that I would expect that you would refer to any other juror who may have - whose responses to questions I ask you may reveal their names by giving me their juror numbers.  And if you don't recall their numbers, certainly their names are in front of you and if you would refer to that list.

Q.  You are here today because you served as a juror in the case of the United States of America versus Governor Siegelman and Mr. Scrushy, case number 05cr-119.  I want to thank you for coming today.  I understand you had to leave your son's school to get here today and I appreciate you coming and being with us.  I don't expect this to take a long time but this is certainly an important procedure and a proceeding in this case.

In the post-trial phase of this case certain issues have been raised that have made it necessary for me to call you to testify as a witness during this hearing.  This is a fact-finding hearing, and the facts about which testimony is given will be relevant to this Court's analysis of certain legal issues pending before the Court.  This hearing is not intended to seek any information in order to punish any juror for anything that has happened during this trial.  Your truthful and candid testimony at this hearing is a necessary part of the administration of our justice system.

While I don't want to overwhelm you with all of the specifics of the legal issues before this Court I do want to give you some information to help you understand the focus of the hearing today.  The purpose of today's hearing is to determine whether any extraneous information was brought to the jury's attention by any person, including by any juror, and determine whether any outside influence was improperly brought to bear upon any juror.  Let me explain what I mean by extraneous information and outside influence.

Extraneous information is any information other than the information the jury received from the following sources:  First, the Court's instructions on the law; second, the factual evidence presented in the case through the witnesses' testimony in the chair that you sit; and third, the factual evidence presented in the case through the exhibits admitted as exhibits during this trial.  Any information that is not in one of those three sources is extraneous information.  By outside influence I mean attempts to influence a juror's thoughts about this case or the outcome of the jury's deliberations by anyone other than another juror.

I will be asking you a series of questions intended to explore your knowledge, if you have any knowledge, of whether extraneous information was brought to the jury's attention or whether any outside influence was improperly brought to bear upon any juror.  Please limit your responses to what you know about extraneous information or outside influences as I have described for you.  My questions are not intended to cause you to testify about statements made during the jury's deliberations other than to the extent that those statements reveal possible extraneous information or outside influences.  Additionally, I am not trying to get you to testify about the effect of anything upon the actual jury deliberations, nor am I trying to get you to testify about how any information discussed by the jurors influenced any juror's mind or emotions or caused a juror or jurors to assent or dissent from the verdict that was reached.

During your testimony I will refer to you as I have said by your juror number, and I would ask that for your convenience and for the protection of the identity of the other jurors that you look at the list that is in front of you and refer to any other of the witnesses that may have served as jurors in this case by their juror number if you have any response that would involve them by name.  This is intended to preserve the privacy of you and your fellow jurors in this case.

All of my questions will focus on the same time frame.  So for each of your answers limit your responses to the period of time starting from the date on which you took your oath as a juror after you were selected for jury service until the time when the jury's verdict was announced in court on June the 29th, 2006.  I am not interested in anything relating to the period after the verdict was announced and you were released from your service as a juror in this case.

With those instructions in mind I am going to ask you a series of ten or 11 questions.  First I would like for you to look at what has been marked as Court's Exhibit 3.  I believe that is the original of a subpoena that was served upon you, and do you recall seeing that subpoena before today's date?

A.  Yes.

Q. That subpoena requires that you bring with you certain documents that are described in that subpoena in subparagraphs one, two, three, and 3-A through 3-G. Did you review those requests by the Court to bring documents with you?

A. I didn't.

Q. You didn't review it or did you not have any documents?

A. I didn't because the box wasn't checked on mine to bring those, so I didn't.

Q. All right. Let me ask if you read that before today's date?

A. I read it.

Q. do you have any of the documents that are described in the subpoena in the block that is not checked?

A. No.

Q. All right. Let me say to you that if that block is not checked on your subpoena that is an administrative oversight by this Court. And I want to make clear for the record, first of all, if you have in your possession any of those documents described in that section of the subpoena that was not checked?

A. Do I have - I don't have any of these things.

Q. You don't have any of those documents that the Court asked that you bring, even if the block were checked on the subpoena?

A. I don't -- I see the exhibits admitted into evidence or anything like that, I don't.

Q. The request says do you have in your possession certain documents other than the exhibits admitted into evidence, testimony of the witnesses or the Judge's instructions, and if you do have anything other than those please bring any documents or objects with you which relate to the information considered, consulted, viewed or discussed. For example, if you have knowledge that any juror, including yourself, may have considered, consulted, viewed or discussed any of the following information during the trial or jury deliberations you should bring all documents or objects related to that information. A, outside information relating to the facts of this case. Do you have any such documents -

A. No.

Q. - about any outside information relating to the facts of this case?

A.,  (Witness shakes head in the negative.)

Q.  Do you have any documents which relate to outside information relating to or concerning any Defendant or witness in this case?

A.  (Witness shakes head to the negative.)

Q.  You need to answer verbally.

A.  No.

Q.  Do you have any documents relating to outside information relating to the law applicable to any aspect of the case?

A.  No.

Q.  Do you have any documents relating to outside information relating to the possible penalty any Defendant might face if they were convicted?

A.  No.

Q.  do you have any information relating to outside information related to any media coverage of this trial?

A.  Does the same thing labeled the media coverage means did I look at anything on the Internet or -

Q.  During the time that you served as a juror did you have any - did you review any media -

A.  No.

Q.  - coverage of this case?

A.  No.

Q.  And those would be part of the questions I will ask you.  I am asking you first if you have any documents relating to that?

A.  No.

Q.  And I skipped over one of them, do you have any information relating to outside information relating to the process of jury deliberations, the role of you as a juror or the role of the foreperson of the jury?

A.  No.

Q.  Do you have any outside information relating to or concerning any aspect of the law or the legal procedures in this case?

A.  No.

Q.  Do you have any outside information other than what the Court admitted into evidence as exhibits, the Court's instructions to you on the law, and the testimony that you heard in this case that you have in your possession that you viewed or brought to the attention of any of the other jurors in this case during your service as a juror?

A.  No.

Q.  All right.  Then that covers that.  Thank you very much.  And if you would, listen to the questions that I have to ask you as follow-up questions.

THE CLERK:  Judge, she he needs to speak into the microphone.

Q.  Speak into the microphone so that we can hear you if you would, please, Juror Number 66.  Did anyone other than another juror try to influence your thinking about this case or your vote on the substantive counts against any Defendant?

A.  No.

Q.  Do you have any reason to believe that any other juror was subjected to attempts to influence his or her thinking about the case by anyone other than another juror?

A.  No.

Q.  Did anyone other than another juror attempt to discuss the case with you during the time you were a juror in this case?

A.  No. 

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you view or did you hear any news reports or other information relating to this case or any Defendant from sources such as newspapers, magazines, radio or television broadcasts or any Internet sites?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you view or did you hear any material from any books, newspapers, Internet sites or any other source relating to any witness, any legal issue or any factual issue related to this case?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you in any way attempt to independently investigate any facts or law relating to this case?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you overhear any conversations between persons not on the jury or between non-jurors and any member of the jury relating to this case?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you view or did you hear any extraneous information about the penalty that might be applicable to an Defendant if he was convicted of the charges in this case?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you obtain extraneous information from any source about your role as a juror, jury service generally, or the role of the foreperson?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did other -- did any other juror say or      do anything that caused you to believe that he or she had been exposed to extraneous information about this case from any source?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Tell me what that was.

A.  It was talked about information they saw on the Internet.

Q.  Okay.

A.  About -

Q.  Let me first ask you to speak into the microphone so that we call all hear you.

A.  Okay.

Q.  Who was it by their juror number indicated that they had been exposed to any information from any source, to include the Internet?

A.  Number Seven.  Number 40.

Q.  Number Seven and Number 40.  All right.  I am going to ask you about each of them individually and I will start with Number Seven.  It's my understanding that Juror Number Seven was the foreperson.

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response)

Q.  Tell me all of what you can recall that he said regarding any independent investigation that he had done outside of the Court's instructions, the evidence and the exhibits admitted into the trial of this case.

A.  Okay.  He said first of all he looked up the role of the foreman on the jury and just other information as related to the process of - and I guess he may have copied - gotten one of the indictments.  He downloaded that and went through that and looked at each one of the cases while he was at home - each one of the charges while he was at home and when he came back he brought just detailed information about how we should consider each one of the charges and what they were saying.

Q.  All right.  So he researched his role as a foreperson.

  1. Uh - huh. (positive response)
  1. And he downloaded information about the indictment?
  1. Uh-huh.  (positive response)
  1. Anything else that you are aware of that he discussed with the jury in your presence?
  1. He did - he looked up information on another one of the Defendants.
  1. He looked up information about what?
  1. On another Defendant, on one that's not here today.  He looked up to see what - how long he had been with his employer and what he had to -
  1. One of the Defendants that were found not guilty?
  1. Yes.
  1. What other information did he tell you he had looked at?
  1. I think that's all.
  1. Did he bring any documents - did Juror Number Seven bring any documents into the jury room about what information that he had looked up about his role as a foreperson?
  1. I don't know what all he had but he did bring in documents but it was something that he was reading off to us that he brought in.  He didn't actually share - we didn't see the hard copy but he did bring it in.
  1. Did anyone in your presence ask to see what he had gotten from the Internet?
  1. Not that I know of.
  1. Did he show that to anyone in the jury room?
  1. Not that I know of.

Q. Or on the jury?

A.  Not that I know of.

Q.  You said he looked up information about the indictment and how you were to consider the counts in the indictment.

A.  Yes.

Q.  He was provided with, and I believe you were also provided with a copy of the Court's instructions to the jury about this case.

A.  Yes.

Q. Was the information that he was referring to different from what the Court had instructed you about the charges in this case?

A.  No.  I mean it was one of the copies of the indictment but he - he went through and analyzed each one of the charges.

Q.  Was that based on information that he had received through his own research or through what the Court had provided you or do you know?

A.  Maybe it's his own research because it wasn't done in the deliberation room, it was done at home and he brought it back.

Q.  Did he show any of you that information about the content of the indictment?

A.  He didn't actually show it to us, he just read from it, what he had.

Q.  He just read from it.

A.  From his indictment.

Q.  And what was it that he asked you or that he shared with you about the information contained in the indictment?

A.  Just basically he went through each one of the charges and each one of the schemes so this - he said he went through each one of them to I guess break it down so we could understand each one of the charges, and this is what - in order to find them guilty this has to be done and this is the way it was done.  And this is basically how it was done.  Because, you know, he had taken time that night and looked over stuff and this is how it was done.  This is what he remembered from taking his notes and he just basically plugged his notes in, what he thought was the evidence.

Q.  When you say his notes are you referring to the notes that he took during the trial that the Court allowed y'all to take?

A.  Right.

Q.  And you say he had those notes available in the jury deliberation room?

A.  Right.

Q.  And you say that he had other information that you believe that he got from the Internet -

A.  Yes.

Q.  - about the indictment?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Now, the jury deliberated in this case if my memory serves me right for about nine days.  Is my recollection consistent with yours?

A.  I think so.

Q.  Do you recall how much time that Juror Number Seven spent talking with you about, first of all, the information that he had researched about his role as the foreperson?

A.  I can't really say.  It may have been after the first time we said it was a hung jury and then he, I guess maybe that night came back and said okay, this is what I have done, I have looked at this and this is the way that we need to try to look at it as far as doing it like this way.  So I don't know, he may have did maybe an hour or two that morning or something, I am not sure how much time.

Q.  And was that about his role as a foreperson or about the charges in the indictment or both?

A. Both.  Once he did the information about being the foreman he came back and said I looked up to see what a foreman supposed to do and I want to give everybody a fair chance to voice their opinion or whatever about the evidence.  And he did that I want to say maybe that second full day that we was in there.

Q.  The second full day of your - after you started your service?

A.  Right.  Once we started during that -

Q.  The next day?

A.  So the next day he came in and said this is the role of the foreman, this is what a foreperson does.

Q.  Did anyone see anything that he brought in to the jury, to your knowledge?

A.  Did we personally look at it?  No.  But did we see him take stuff, you know, out of his - that he had in his hand or in his jacket or something, yes.

Q.  And how much time did he spend discussing that with you?

A.  About the foreman, the role of the foreman?

Q.  Yes.

A.  I don't know, maybe ten minutes.

Q.  Okay.  I will ask you the same series of questions about what he may have brought in or how much time he spent discussing with you information about the counts in the indictment that he researched from sources independent from what the Court has explained to you does not cover extraneous information.

A.  How much time he spent on each one?

Q.  How much time did he spend talking with you about how much research he had done about the counts in the indictment?

A.  I don't know if he gave us an - exact how much time he spent researching it.

Q.  No, no.  I don't want to know how much time he spent researching it, what I want to know is how much time did he spend wit the jury talking with you about what research he had done or what information he had received outside of what the Court gave you as the evidence and the law to consider in this case?

A.  I don't know if I can break down and say exactly how much time because when we went through each one of them it was always okay, well, but when you look here this says and it's not in the book that you gave us, it's not in the indictment so - and he had his paperwork there, so each one of the charges there was information about it.  So it was never okay, we are going to discuss this one charge or discuss all of the research I have done, it was each one of the charges as we went through it.

Q.  And you went through it charge by charge?

A.  By charge.

Q.  Did you see any of the information that he brought in about the charges?

A.  I didn't.

Q.  And he just discussed it as you went through it?

A.  Like I said, he didn't read it, you know, I mean, but you can - he took it out of his jacket or whatever or something so he had it and was reading from it.

Q.  Okay.  You said he had information about independent research he had done about co-Defendants -

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response)

Q.  - that were acquitted in this case.

A.  Yes.

Q.  How much time did he spend discussing that information with the members of the jury?

A.  That may have been ten or 15 minutes on that, on the -

Q.  Ten or 15 minutes -

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response)

Q.  - on each Defendant that was acquitted?

A.  Yeah.

Q.  Again, did you see any of the information that he may have looked at from sources outside of what the Court gave you to look at in making your decision?

A.  I didn't see it.

Q.  Okay.  Was there anything else that you are aware of that the foreman, Juror Number Seven, looked at, consulted with or brought into the jury room during the deliberative process of this jury?

A.  No.

Q.  Let's then go now to Juror Number 40.  You said that she also indicated that she had been exposed to information from the Internet.

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response).

Q.  Tell me what it is that you are aware of that she was exposed to and discussed with the other members of the jury.

A.  Okay.  Again, she told us that she went to the Web site, it's the District Court Web site, and downloaded a copy of the indictment.  And she too did the same thing, she went through and read the indictment and highlighted some points on it and I guess like took her notes on it, put her evidence, plugged her evidence into the different charges and different indictments.

Q.  Do you know what it was about each count in the indictment that she researched?

A.  Do I know? No.

Q.  Did she ever show you any information that she had gotten from the Internet or from any source outside of what the Court has explained would be proper evidence to be considered?

A.  She didn't show us everything.  She did say that while she was on that Web site and she saw another Internet article about the trial, and that -

Q.  Did she discuss what was in that article or that news report?

A.  She said something about it but I am not certain.

Q.  Do you know how much time she spent discussing what she had read that was contained in the news article, first of all?

A.  I don't think it was discussed about it, but she said she did read something about it.  And I done forgot which news article it was but she just made a comment about the writer and the Defendants or whatever.

Q.  Did she share any of the content of that article with the other members of the jury, to include you?

A.  Other than just making a statement about what she read.

Q.  And how much time would you anticipate or estimate that that took?

A.  Maybe five minutes, it wasn't a whole lot spent on it.

Q.  All right.  You said that she also had apparently looked at the charges from the indictment that was on the Court's Web site and done some independent investigation or research into the counts contained in the Court's indictment that was posted on the Web site?

A. Exactly.

Q.  Do you know that?

A.  She told us.

Q.  I mean how do you know that she had looked at the indictment that was on the Web site?  Because the Court provided you with a copy of the indictment to look at your during deliberations, you are aware of that.

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response)

Q.  Was the copy of the indictment that she was referring to different from the indictment that the Court had provided to the jury?

A.  Well, it was over the weekend and she said she had did it over the weekend and she had analyzed each one of the charges, and I know she didn't take it from here.  I don't know if we had already had a copy about that time, but it was over the weekend, and when she came back and just said well, you know, I looked at the indictment.  It was like, how did you look at it?  It was here.  She said it was on the Web site.

Q.  All right.  And you said that she apparently had taken some notes on each count in the indictment?

A.  Uh-huh.  (positive response)

Q.  Did she ever show you or anyone in your presence those notes that she had taken?

A.  She didn't.

Q.  How much time did she discuss having researched information either about the indictment or the counts in the indictment after that weekend that you have described?

A.  That may have been about 15 or 20 minutes, she was telling us about it.

Q.  Is there anything else that you are aware of that Juror Number 40 researched either on the Internet  or looked at on either television or any print media or listened to in any television or radio broadcasts about this trial during the trial that she brought into the jury room and discussed with the jury?

A.  No.

Q.  Did anyone else while you were serving as a juror do or say anything that caused you to believe that he or she had been exposed to extraneous information about this case from any source other than Juror Number 40 and Juror Number Seven?

A.  No.

Q.  During the time that you were serving as a juror did you view or hear any extraneous information about either the law applicable to this case or any factual material relating to this case?

A.  No.

Q.  Thank you, ma'am.  Juror Number 6, you may step down and you are excused.

MR. MCDONALD:  Your Honor, may  we have a side bar?

THE COURT:  No.  Number Eight.

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